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176601 No.116461   [Reply]

I'm doing a little scientific-ish experiment to see which steam railroad is the best using only metric data related to them, including the original opening date of the line, the length of mainline track, number of steam locomotives, and number of diesel locomotives. All the numbers in each of those four areas are graded together on a bell curve and then averaged to get an overall score for each railroad (score increases the older it is, the longer it is, the more steamers it has, and the fewer diesels it has). Right now I only have a selection of North American railroads that have at least one or two working steamers.

The overall top scoring railroads in North America according to this spreadsheet are...

1: Cumbres & Toltec Scenic Railroad
2: Durango & Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad
3: Cass Scenic Railroad State Park

What do you think of this?

12 posts and 3 images omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.116564  

The rule I am using is whatever is officially running right now, which does not include those that are under restoration or OOS, according to steamlocomotive dot com or the railroad's website. On the former, the only one marked as operating right now is UP 844.

Also, the date of operation I am using is the "historical"/"marketing department" date, which is to say the very first year that rails first touched the ground at that spot and began to offer service.

>> No.116566  
File: 1406250340349.png -(186116 B, 442x341) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

Diesels were invented through a collaboration between Hitler, Stalin, and Satan in order to destroy America. The only reason that they decided on diesel fuel was because they did not have enough children's tears.

>> No.116567  
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>tfw one of the top 5 is in my state
>> No.116574  
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Okay, before I start adding the new selections of railroads, here is a test to see what happens to the scores, if the track gauge is made part of the score (higher gauge = higher score). I don't think it's an improvement and I'm going to go back to the gauges not being scored. When you think about it, if you are riding in a coach on a 3 ft gauge line or a standard gauge line, you often can't tell a difference because most of the time the cars are the same size, only with different sized trucks underneath. Also, in Britain for instance, even a lot of the really really small-gauged lines have full or near full-size coaches as well.

tl;dr: track gauge does not add or take away from the riding experience most of the time.

>> No.116577  


under that metric, neither UP nor CP have anything operating.

>> No.116578  

Per steamlocomotive dot com, they have one each.

>> No.116579  
File: 1406260691615.png -(181514 B, 1676x1169) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

Okay, here is the spreadsheet with UP and CP added.

>> No.116580  
File: 1406260793284.png -(107199 B, 756x1233) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

...and its related table. What seems to be the biggest effect of adding the two big Class I Railroads to the list is that the opening date score gains greater importance. The B&O Railroad Museum is now the #1 scorer.

>> No.116584  


Steamlocomotive dot com is incorrect. CP 2816 was put out of service as soon as Hunter Harrison took over CP.

UP 844 was damaged in a hydro-locking incident* last year and is out of service at this time.

*Hydro-locking is what happens when you have too much water in the boiler and it gets pulled into the cylinders. Water is incompressible, and this causes the drivers to suddenly stop turning... which is pretty bad especially at speed, which causes flat spots (in 844's case, condemnable, requiring emergency turning).

Show me a scheduled run of 844 for 2014 or 2015, and I'll believe it's in service. Until then, it's OOS.

>> No.116587  
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Hmmm...okay, I'll have to remove those two from the list, then. They were effectively nullifying the effect of the length and diesel stats for the whole list anyway.

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200772 No.116534   [Reply]

On the electrical side of things, does anyone know why the overhead supply seems to have an effect on acceleration?
It seems that 1500vdc stock always seems to have higher acceleration specifications than its 20/25kvac counterparts*. This is regardless of AC or DC motors. And weight doesn't factor into it since things like the E501 are already absurdly light at as little as 26t a car and has piss acceleration. At the same time, a lower voltage also seems to have an effect as Mini Shinkansen trains have higher acceleration specs under 20kV vs 25kV. Or in another thread, it was noted that the EF81 had less power under 20kV vs 1500v.

*The stark exception to this is the relatively overpowered HK SP1900 which accelerates like a boss. Maybe the hardware side of things might reveal clues. The TX2000 is another possible candidate.

One guess is the waveform of AC has less area under the curve compared to a 3 phase rectified to DC. But then under AC, a train could just pull more current on the cycles to make up couldn't it? Some sort of transformer limitations where you'd have to get a substantially larger one to fill the spec and in some cases it'd have too much magnetic fields so it wasn't possible (like the EF500) perhaps?
I'm no electrical engineer though.

>> No.116581  

This has little to do with the power supply method and more to do with train design. 25kV overhead and modern, adequately-sized power electronics can definitely support whatever tractive force one may need. At 25kV a pantograph can collect a lot more power compared to 1.5kV.

The differences depend on a lot of factors. Depending on the year a train was designed and the type of traction motors it uses there can be limitations. For example, the EF81 is an old design that uses DC traction motors. The lower power under AC is probably due to the power limits of the electronics (transformer, rectifier etc).

Furthermore, trains do not exist in a vaccum, but rather, they operate on lines using specific schedules and drivers are told whether to optimize their driving style for speed or power conservation.

Just to tl;dr and make it clear though, 25kV AC supplies a lot more power than 1.5kV DC and that power can be converted to high tractive force, but it's usually the requirements of a line that play the greatest role.

>> No.116582  

But then what about the case of the Mini Shinkansen? Takeoff is almost universally at full notch on Shinkansen lines and these would definitely have much more capable supplies than conventional lines. Yet on the conventional line, acceleration is higher.

Or there's the HK K sets which have almost double the acceleration compared to the 25kV HK Metro Cammell whilst only having 50% more power per car on a presumably similar gear ratio (the K is even geared to go slightly faster on paper). (on that note, the HK K set probably has the highest acceleration out there for an EMU, even beating the Hanshin "Jetcar"). Or back to the SP1900 which has more power than the K per vehicle but also has 30% lower acceleration. All of these trains also follow the same purpose of being metro commuter trains.
These specs are also on presumably on paper and thus can be regarded as full notch, as opposed to driver behaviour.

On a different note, all trains running through the Tokyo Metro seem to be geared for exactly the same acceleration of .92m/s/s. Whether it was JR, Tokyo Metro, Tobu or Tokyu. Though the reasoning would of course be going full notch and being able to design a timetable around it. Suddenly the Odakyu MSE appears and stuffs up everything.

>> No.116585  

Note that acceleration is not linear but rather decays exponentially as speed increrases. Stated acceleration figures in specification tables are usually the average from 0 to maximum operational speed. But a train with a higher operational speed will obviously accelerate slower as speed increases (due to drag) pulling the average lower even if both trains accelerate roughly at the same pace.

In any case, your questions are not easy to answer and don't have anything to do with electrical limitations of 25kV AC but rather line operator policy.

>> No.116586  

Some of the differences in acceleration can be traced to gearing. You can gear the final drive tall for speed or short for acceleration.

I suspect with the EF81 that transformer/rectifier could not be dimensioned big enough given the available space/cooling to deliver full power to the locomotive.

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672202 No.115743   [Reply]
>[FFF] Rail Wars! - 01v2 [C4EF87C0].mkv.torrent
40 posts and 15 images omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.116545  

At least we'll always have Galaxy Express 999 and Galaxy Railways.

>> No.116548  
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For train Animu 5cm Per Second is p. good too. Makoto Shinkai is a big railfan.

>> No.116551  
File: 1406242147721.jpg -(2953496 B, 3130x2200) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

This sort of reasoning always puzzled me. Why would swearing somehow affect, either positively or negatively, any argument? I understand certain fools might somehow automatically reject any argument presented with curse-words; but, likewise, most people will automatically reject any argument they find disagrees with their pre-existing notions, curse-words or not.

Ueno-Akihabara section of the Tokyo central connecting line in aerial from 1936. It seems that land had been cleared for an eventual addition of a further two-tracks to the viaduct already, though by 1941, this had not yet been built, presumably due to the war. God I love historic aerial photography. Tramways followed most major streets, and many remained by 1966, though after this they disappear very fast.

>> No.116565  

>>116551 -- Swearing is connected with destructive behaviour, not creative ditto.

>> No.116568  


Spirited Away had a trolley.

>> No.116569  
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Galaxy Railways be a real thang yo. Iwate knows what's up in heyo.

>> No.116571  


Yeah, Matsumoto is a gigantic foamer.

>> No.116572  
File: 1406253374716.jpg -(33407 B, 598x327) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.


IIRC quite a few Miyazaki/Ghibli movies feature trains. E.g.:

Whisper of the Heart and The Cat Returns feature some classic Keio trains (5000 and 6000 types), as the play is partially set in the Tama area. Pic related.
My Neighbour Totoro has a fictitious railway line near the protagonist's house, based on old Seibu operations.
Only Yesterday features the JNR/JR Senzan line prominently.

>> No.116573  


The IGR (Iwate Galaxy Railway) has however nothing to do with Mr. Matusmoto (who is from Fukuoka). The name hails from the overnight express trains that ran/run on the line: Hokutosei (Polestar) and Cassiopeia.

>> No.116583  
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JR also launched the SL Galaxy. No 999 on the plates unlike a previous steam unit though !

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44719 No.116533   [Reply]


>lower speeds
>> No.116543  
>lower speeds

Already had the speed of crude unit trains reduced for us if they use the old tank cars.

>> No.116570  

An oil train derailed in the middle of Seattle. Nothing spilled (the cars were likely empty), no one got hurt. But la dee da, there are people with the posterior aches over it screaming "MUH QUEBEC!".

>> No.116575  


>the Seattle derailment
>that tiny thing

People are actually screaming about petrol trains because of THAT?

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172510 No.116481   [Reply]

Tram scamming?

>> No.116486  

It's a fake i think.

>> No.116491  
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Yeesh, that ungodly noise!

>> No.116527  

They definitely do a similar thing in Thailand. At least in the past couple of decades. Hop on, roll along, hop off to let a train overtake and hop back on. Although I'm not sure what keywords to search online.

ref: comeng a history of commonwealth engineering vol. 5 on describing difficulties with developing an XPT variant or some sort of express for the Thai market

>> No.116530  

Its a big thing in Cambodia too, since the country's rail system collapsed under the Khmer Rouge and proper train services have been very sporadic ever since.

>> No.116532  

It's also a big thing in the DPRK. Due to the infrequent services and chronic maintenance and rolling stock shortages and problems there's a lot of those motorcycle engine-powered little things scurrying about in the rural areas providing provisional traffic.

>> No.116540  
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>> No.116541  
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By God, we're slacking off for a chan...

Someone should have posted by now.

>> No.116556  

It's pretty big in Manila, too.


>> No.116561  

Bamboo Railway

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52890 No.116093   [Reply]

Which track gauge is the best? IF you had the God-like power to change all track gauges of every railroad on Earth to one single gauge, what would it be?

7 posts and 1 images omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.116189  

It's all arbitrary.

Stephenson's first big project, the Stockton and Darlington, used 4ft 8in gauge track because that was the gauge for the track in the local horse-drawn mines that it was meant to serve. Later when he designed the legendary Liverpool & Manchester, he increased the gauge by a half inch so the wheels would have more lateral play. Hence, simply because the first modern railway happened to use this gauge, it became the de facto world standard today.

>> No.116437  

Go Russian and round it up to five foot dead.

>> No.116438  

Smoot gauge!!!

>> No.116483  

>>116437 -- The Finnish (and Estonian) gauge, you mean.

>> No.116498  

Russian gauge and Finnish gauge have a difference of 4 mm, so they are basically the same.

>> No.116529  

But no one uses those feet no more (some gauges in the world were also different because of the variation in what a feets were; Swedish 3 foot gauge is 891mm, for example, which doesn't exist elsewhere, due to the definition of a foot being different). I mean, except for the obstinate Americans.

I like 1520mm, though. Nice and rounded.

>> No.116550  

The extra 20mm do jack for stability or cost, if designing completely from scratch, a truly round number sounds nicer to me.
A universal gauge sounds convenient, but I see a use for standard and narrow for commercial traffic, not to mention the miniatures, of which most agree there are too stinking many.

>> No.116552  


>except for the obstinate Americans

99.9% of our rail lines are standard gauge (4ft-8.5in), which is also the standard gauge in Canada, Mexico, most of Western Europe, China, and Australia. The Brits still hang on to imperial track gauges as well in the form of their various 2 ft gauge tourist lines.

>> No.116553  

...not to mention 5ft-6in gauge in India and Argentina. All of these are imperial-based gauges.

>> No.116559  

I meant rather that, while the 1435mm comes from the imperial measure (obviously), the imperial units are not used in common parlance except by the Americans and the brits, as opposed to metric.

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213321 No.116471   [Reply]
>> No.116558  

I seen her FIRST!

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3926556 No.116503   [Reply]

This video made me laugh:


Lots and lots of big trains...BIG trains!

>> No.116504  

Also, I should not that it's kind of dumb to sell a DVD of something that is basically just a bunch of free video clips from Youtube.

>> No.116514  


>> No.116515  
File: 1406184246348.jpg -(67672 B, 640x480) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

No, it's kind of dumb to BUY a DVD full of YouTube video clips. SELLING something that's almost pure profit is brilliant, and could finance any addicting vice [pic related].

>> No.116518  


one day i'll have a wall like that, one day.

>> No.116549  


Why would you want a wall like that. I would rather them all be running around on a layout.

>> No.116554  

Seconded. A bit like having a nice exotic car and never taking it out of the garage.

>> No.116555  
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293508 No.116546   [Reply]

Ya think this is crazy enough trackwork for CV?

>> No.116547  
>The horror of the power failing and having to throw all those switches by hand.

No.115828   [Reply]

Veolia is in a bit of hot water now. Seems they have been ninja-wanman-ing the trains between Sweden and Denmark.

>> No.115829  

That's a damn shame.

>> No.115830  

Can we have that again but in English please?

>> No.115831  

Theu have been caught sending trains with only the driver as crew aboard. The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oresundtrain can carry a buncha hundred passengers so having only a driver onboard should something break is suboptimal.

>> No.115833  

Are they allowed to operate them DOO there? The Tube is entirely DOO, though admittedly a tunnel 50m below ground and a really, really long bridge are somewhaat different use cases.

>> No.116489  

Nope. Must have a driver/train manager pair there unless they run out of TMs.

Btw: wanman (ja-jp) = One Man = DOO.


>> No.116497  

Isn't this a common practice on some European networks?
I mean it's not efficient but it's not surprising.

>> No.116531  

It is generally the rule rather than exception in many places, but there is generally secondary staff on board for longer mainline journeys (unrelated to the actual driving and not in the cab). You'll generally have a train master present who collects tickets and or checks as well as providing some safety checks and whatnot, though how much operation they are involved in varies. I assume that in this case they had no other staff whatsoever other than the driver. As an aside, I thought it was still DSB's foreign operations arm that ran the service, not Veolia? Then again, been living under a rock.

>> No.116544  

Well... Sydsvenskan said it was Veolia.

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